Breaking News !, Echo V Several Different Defendants, Re: IKS Server Lawsuits

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

There was a major Ecm by Echo that targeted IKS providers in the last two weeks. Different reports of shut downs. It was also reported that the ECM provided a method where Echo was able to obtain the Cam Id information leading to the shut down of Cam's running on IKS servers.


Echo has filed up to eight separate lawsuits on people in the US running IKS servers. This could be linked to the ECM and the information they obtained but I do not know as there is no mention in the lawsuits filed. Echo could have got the information and quickly prepared lawsuits then at a later time shut down the Cams.


I have attached different lawsuits that were filed. More to follow.



GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Here are more attached.



GS2

[dantheman]

so does this mean iks is finished?
what receiver brands were the ones busted?

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

I would not say its finished but suffered a blow. We don't know if these lawsuits will be tied into brands. Have to see what plays out in the lawsuits. You have to wonder about Nfusion everyday that goes by with them not up and running.




GS2

[Homesl|ce]

Especially with the server outage over the weekend.
Then when they got it "back up"..SS went around saying some part of the DNS expired or some crap, and they had to get it renewed before the site would resolve, blah blah blah

[popcorn900]

and that site can not be found again. so long nfusion, f-u-c-k wasted my money.

[dishmandu]

they lie to promote their product
this has always been like this

in fact business 101 dictates that any time you have people attention as in people are expecting you to say something, you use that as an opportunity to promote your product.
this is what they did, except they lie too, there is no ethics committee or stockholders, just mindless sheep, so it works for them

[Homesl|ce]

One of those Dummy followers said that if ANYONE posted the legal docs about the IKS suits on that site..they would be BANNED, no questions asked. What kind of morons are these folks..I understand it's their site, their rules..but not allowing their own members to read of the dangers in IKS..
Just keep the sheep in the pen..those wolves will NEVER find a way to get thru the fence..

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

They want to avoid the discussion on it so they put out a warning you'll be banned if you post it. I have seen that before from sites with some who also said we do not censor.




GS2

[Homesl|ce]

To me, its like they are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Pointless to try and hide/protect their precious herd of sheep from the absolute sh*tstorm that I believe is about to be started on IKS solutions. So they'd rather remain in the "dont talk about that" state than be openly honest with their members about the facts.
Sounds like a repeat of how f2a bit the dust...
"oh, everything is fine..dont worry.."

"db is safe and secure, dish will never get it"

"lets just say the red button was pushed ..blah blah blah..but don't worry hell not froze over" - I distinctly remember that one (splash on F2A when he was served for 2 weeks or so?...thereabouts 2 weeks I guess)

Actually the last one, about the red button, was quite amusing, to me. I lol'd all the way to the X in the top RH corner.
They can stay in denial..I hope they do. That way when it does explode like a sack of sh7z ..they all get a little stink on themselves trying to clean it up...where is good ol' SS to give the "official WOTD" on the suits? I can just imagine it now

"They'll never catch NF..coders were locked in a room with 5 chinamen and 2 pitbulls when JJG came in, they had a shoot-out, and the coders grabbed the server and dove out the windows like batman...now they are underground, literally, in the sewers of China and are setting up the server there..
If you happen to get the smell of poo coming from your NF, pay that no mind..that's just the location of the server.

superstar


hahaha..I got an active imagination, I know..but it just keeps me amused to watch the soap opera "As the IKS-world turns"

[the_dart]

People dont go to the expense or trouble of setting up IKS for themselves or their friends and family...

1. Huge amount of tech knowledge needed
2. Why bother? Buy an existing one, less hassle, less risk...Theres only reason...to make $$$$$$$$

More importantly, DN would not bother to prosecute a single user, or even a "mom and pop" IKS organization....The cost is enormous, and unless the person/persons charged are benefiting substantially financially, theyd only get a fine. It would be like charging a guy for copying a DVD, useless. You need to be reproducing and profiting to suffer consequences....

And dont tell me they filed 8 different suits to 8 different small fries all over the country at the same time. These are 8 parts of a single prosecution, likely vs 8 co-defendants.....

This is big....and the absence of a sign of life from NFUSION sure raises a lot of questions. Not to mention, if you are DN, and youre gonna act against IKS, who do you go after first? Obviously...the biggest fish.

And who is #! in IKS?

I could be wrong, but i think we may have seen the end for NFUSION

[Tigershark]

Where are all the Coders who "were" working on stand alone bin files to publish to the net. It been a long time sinc you heard anything about that stuff. Every day or so they were talking about a new file coming out. Those rumors are gone and not one has a new stand alone bin file. Where did the Coders all go?? there should be news somewhere.

[lackadaisical]

How did you locate all of the lawsuits? Did you use a commercial search engine such as Westlaw or Lexis? Thanks for all the info. A genuine reality check.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

How did you locate all of the lawsuits? Did you use a commercial search engine such as Westlaw or Lexis? Thanks for all the info. A genuine reality check.


I locate them on Pacer which is a site that provides courts docs for a fee. Since Blindscan disappeared from last March I have been running his name on search on a regular basis and it finally came up with a hit because for me when a site diappears so quick without an explanation it usually means legal problems.




GS2

[Homesl|ce]

How did you locate all of the lawsuits? Did you use a commercial search engine such as Westlaw or Lexis? Thanks for all the info. A genuine reality check.

Persons with a Pacer account get access to legal docs as soon as they are demanded for public knowledge by the judge / or court. Once signed by the judge and filed they are open for viewing by public.

[Homesl|ce]

Looks like we were typing at the same time, lol.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Looks like we were typing at the same time, lol.


Ya but I beat you to the punch lol.



GS2

[lackadaisical]

GS2 - Did you check to see whether the complaints were actually served, and when? The IKS went down when, Thursday the 3rd of December? Were some of the other cases (not Nathan Greene) served by then? Greene wasn't filed until the 4th, and it probably wouldn't have been served any sooner than that day, and probably later.

[lackadaisical]

GS2 - I think I have found the answer to my question above - the complaints didn't need to be served because the subscriptions were shut down by DN in the same manner that any subscription can be terminated by DN.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

GS2 - Did you check to see whether the complaints were actually served, and when? The IKS went down when, Thursday the 3rd of December? Were some of the other cases (not Nathan Greene) served by then? Greene wasn't filed until the 4th, and it probably wouldn't have been served any sooner than that day, and probably later.


No I do not think it was on the docket yet about being served. I think Echo had the information from before from the ECM and waited to gather up lawyers to file and then did the shut down of the Cams. I don't people really know when that ECM started only know when the Cams went off. I update files when something noteworthy happens like an answer to the complaint.




GS2

[jemmac]

man you guys are really on top of this. great work. this helps shed light on the whole iks situation. thank you

[Tigershark]

I have had questions about the future and vulnerability of the IKS system. It took a little longer that I thought it would. the constant net connection and ipaddress posted and a site people could see in wiznet. The Dn tech's simply played a card that no one expected. They sought out a group of cards that seemed connected. The sent a cancellations order fr those catds suspected and violla the iks sites went down. They got what they were going after. Ot would be so good to get the stand alone bin files back once again, Such a darn shame that the files have not been pursued and released instead of the iks system. This was supposed to be a chance to regroup, go into beta with this to start watching tv on a temp basis. The change has been a demand for perfect IKS thinking that was the way they should head. The lawsuits provide proof that IKS is short lived and the bin files need to come back for all gear.
Hello Coders, We need you right away. :fight

[Pam]

No I do not think it was on the docket yet about being served. I think Echo had the information from before from the ECM and waited to gather up lawyers to file and then did the shut down of the Cams. I don't people really know when that ECM started only know when the Cams went off. I update files when something noteworthy happens like an answer to the complaint.
GS2

Usually the time you see the suit on Pacer, it has been one to a few days after the defendant knows about the suit. The defendants could have been served the suits a day or two before Pacer had the suits online. Pacer won't list suits that have not been served.

That gave plenty of time for a defendant to notify Nfusion.

All the suits that name the "Does" are boilerplate, with the complaints the same and only the names changed. This tells us the suits were ready to file or had been filed for awhile. It also means dozens more are ready to file.

Good luck with Nfusion trying to set up more "Doe" networks, getting enough cards to avoid too many CWs, and staying up. NF will have to scale back to avoid detection, make a huge investment or stay black.

[Homesl|ce]

And STILL..SS is giving his updates like nothing is wrong, and everything is on-track for NF to just POP back up on the scene when they get ready. I know the guy's not telling the truth..why doesn't he just say what Mili did, and then SS can take off to Europe to be with Mili and work on the "next big thing"
Slingers will be back too...they are just waiting on the lights to be turned on in the new digs where they put the subs.

[Homesl|ce]

GS2: do you have the PDF of the cases filed ...these:

Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Siko et al 12-16-09

Dish Network LLC et al v. Shah et al 12-15-09

Dish Network, L.L.C. et al v. Leadbeater et al 12-15-09

Dish Network LLC et al v. Harper et al 12-15-09

J & J Sports Productions, Inc. v. Abern et al 12-15-09

J&J Sports Productions, Inc. v. Rodriguez et al 12-14-09

All are on the docket search..wondering if on pacer yet?

[Homesl|ce]

oops..i posted 2 that aren't related..sorry
those JJ collins..lol..don't care about!!lmao

i couldn't edit.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

GS2: do you have the PDF of the cases filed ...these:

Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Siko et al 12-16-09

Dish Network LLC et al v. Shah et al 12-15-09

Dish Network, L.L.C. et al v. Leadbeater et al 12-15-09

Dish Network LLC et al v. Harper et al 12-15-09

J & J Sports Productions, Inc. v. Abern et al 12-15-09

J&J Sports Productions, Inc. v. Rodriguez et al 12-14-09

All are on the docket search..wondering if on pacer yet?


I have Shaw and Harper and Nguyen not on your list. I will post them hopefully tomorrow. They are all IKS like the other previous ones. I will check out the others you have tomorrow also. I wonder just how many there will end up being in total.




GS2

[Homesl|ce]

I think (you) or somoene, will wind up going broke (analogy) trying to pay for all those PDF files..lol
Isn't it like .09 a page or something?

I have a feeling we're going to see hundred more before it's all said and done. I'd bet Echo has an airtight case on SEVERAL if not hundreds of people and did have well before the first strike was thrown by them. Just my opinion..but I think we're definitely FAR from seeing an end to the suits against IKS seeders/subs.

[Pam]

There will be all the suits they can possibly file which could be hundreds. That's why they wrote a boilerplate petition, all of them seem to be 19 pages long and they can just change names and addresses. The lawyers probably have dozens sitting waiting to be filed and who knows how many the clerk already has that have not been served or listed on Pacer.

I think DN is pulling a DTV attack, and coming down so hard that people and companies will be too scared to do any pirating.

[Homesl|ce]

I bet these 4 I'm waiting to get my hands on are more seeders to a server somewhere.
There are 2 that haven't showed a sign of life SINCE this 1st round of attacks..I'm wondering of they got both of them at once?
You got mili, that fool ran off to Europe...but not before trying to whore out some DTV subs and stack them..not a single word on slinger except "quite a few weeks"

then you got Nfusion..they are just feeding the sheep all this security shit to keep them from getting restless..but the natives won't stay peaceful long, when they realize their free-tv bandwagon has expired on them.

I love trying to post some places, and these idiots tell me "your just jealous / envious of us who are getting tv"...
thats SO LMAO.

If they only knew..i had a family member HAND me a damn IKS capable box..and I didn't pay a DIME for it either...just gave to me. I still wouldn't think of using it..even though I got one free, just sitting in the closet..HAHAHAHA...
I'm not jealous ....I'm using COMMON damn SENSE...idiots and their TV..it takes over I guess..nothing is more important than some stupid channels? maybe in their little world.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Here are four more



GS2

[spiderchow69]

man you guys are really on top of this. great work. this helps shed light on the whole iks situation. thank you

I know you because you are a admin of another site. I hate to say it but you are bad news. I would not tell you if I smoked a joint. Im glad I just use my nfusion for true fta.

[Homesl|ce]

Hey GS2..curious on this one:

Echo V Shaw_ Wireless Link_ Re Iks Server_1.pdf

Doesn't have a case number/civil stamp or what-have-you...was it the attorneys submit of the charges or did they just post to pacer before it was entered into the computer and given a case #?

[diasharp]

I know you because you are a admin of another site. I hate to say it but you are bad news. I would not tell you if I smoked a joint. Im glad I just use my nfusion for true fta.

why is he bad news?

accusations without proof only make the accuser look bad.....

can you elaborate?

Thanks

D#

[Homesl|ce]

And both just joined here recently..I know I'm new here too...but GS2 has seen me enough to know I'm not trouble...so have a few others if you thunk about it..

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Hey GS2..curious on this one:

Echo V Shaw_ Wireless Link_ Re Iks Server_1.pdf

Doesn't have a case number/civil stamp or what-have-you...was it the attorneys submit of the charges or did they just post to pacer before it was entered into the computer and given a case #?



CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 3:09-cv-02046


The lawyers file it in court and then the court puts it up on Pacer. I saw that post on Dsstesters I think where the person is questioning because of no stamp. I do not know why its like that but its legit on Pacer and not a leak. I don't have an explanation for it and then some people won't accept it as I seen that before but its always real stamp or no stamp. Below is the information along with the docket entries.



U.S. District Court
United States District Court for the District of Connecticut (New Haven)
CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 3:09-cv-02046-RNC

Dish Network LLC et al v. Shah et al
Assigned to: Judge Robert N. Chatigny
Cause: No cause code entered
Date Filed: 12/15/2009
Jury Demand: None
Nature of Suit: 490 Cable/Satellite TV
Jurisdiction: Federal Question
Plaintiff
Dish Network LLC represented by Peter M. Nolin
Sandak Hennessey & Greco
707 Summer Street
Stamford , CT 06901-1026
203-425-4200
Fax: 203-325-8608
Email: pnolin@shglaw.com
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Stephanie A. McLaughlin
Sandak Hennessey & Greco
707 Summer Street
Stamford , CT 06901-1026
203-425-4200
Fax: 203-325-8608
Email: smclaughlin@shglaw.com
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED
Plaintiff
EchoStar Tech LLC represented by Peter M. Nolin
(See above for address)
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Stephanie A. McLaughlin
(See above for address)
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED
Plaintiff
NagraStar LLC represented by Peter M. Nolin
(See above for address)
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Stephanie A. McLaughlin
(See above for address)
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

V.
Defendant
Mahammad Shah
Defendant
Shah Arjumand
Defendant
Wireless Link LLC
Defendant
Does 1-10

Date Filed # Docket Text

12/15/2009 1 COMPLAINT against Does 1-10, Mahammad Shah, Shah Arjumand, Wireless Link LLC ( Filing fee $ 350 receipt number H029775), filed by Dish Network LLC, EchoStar Tech LLC, NagraStar LLC.(Gothers, M.) (Entered: 12/18/2009)

12/15/2009 2 Order on Pretrial Deadlines: Amended Pleadings due by 2/13/2010 Discovery due by 6/16/2010. Signed by Clerk on 12/15/09. (Gothers, M.) (Entered: 12/18/2009)

12/15/2009 3 ELECTRONIC FILING ORDER - PLEASE ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH COURTESY COPY REQUIREMENTS IN THIS ORDER. Signed by Judge Robert N. Chatigny on 12/15/09. (Attachments: # 1 e-file attachment)(Gothers, M.) (Entered: 12/18/2009)

12/15/2009 4 Corporate Disclosure Statement by Dish Network LLC, EchoStar Tech LLC, NagraStar LLC identifying Corporate Parent EchoStar Corp for EchoStar Tech LLC, NagraStar LLC; Corporate Parent Dish DBS Corp, Corporate Parent DISH Network Corp for Dish Network LLC. (Gothers, M.) (Entered: 12/18/2009)

12/15/2009 5 NOTICE of Appearance by Stephanie A. McLaughlin on behalf of Dish Network LLC, EchoStar Tech LLC, NagraStar LLC (Gothers, M.) (Entered: 12/18/2009)





GS2

[Homesl|ce]

Thanks bud..I wanted to know just in case I saw that become an issue, I could quickly set them strait..but so far doesn't seem no one is questioning it's validity.

Not to mention that one particular place, everytime I post docs..this guy from old *scams pops up to tell EVERYONE how he can't believe they allow me to post these docs that "clearly are from a known D N informant."

I'm like..wtf...?

Every single time I post one. I think he's on the way out though..lol.
He's done pushed too many buttons saying it over and over..the last time he said it was when I mentioned "Dummy" saying they would ban anyone who posted these pdf's on their site..(but i wasn't on dummy..this didn't happen there)..
This guy..he saw us making fun of Dummy and jumped in to say "I can see why they don't want those docs posted when they clearly come <AGAIN> from a known DN informant."

We're all like, dude..give it a rest already. Shit.

[tvseeker]

I got Booted from "dummy" site for saying That their NF story was BS and to come here and read the truth. LOL

[Pam]

I was booted from Dummy and I haven't posted anything there in weeks. SS and his minions are reading other sites and will ban people for posts that are not even on Dummy. The day before I was booted from Dummy, I told off some of the ne're do wells at FeeSatFix and I think that is why I was banned. There are one or two at FreeSatFix who seem to be defenders and protectors of Dummy and Nfusion, but one can never tell, there are SS spies everywhere, reading and banning.

Obviously, when Smith was sued he started talking fast after he realized the trouble he is in. Dummy went down for a few days after the suit was unsealed and its name mentioned, to get rid of the original Smith web links to Dummy. Right after Smith was sued, SS made his appearance on Dummy as the "Official Spokesperson." SS works for the providers. That's the deal with Smith and Dummy to let the providers have full access to Dummy and its base. Anyone can read SS peculiar answers and questions and know SS is gathering information, not giving it. SS only got it right once when SS promised a December surprise. Yep, it was a surprise. SS wants his/her cover kept and Dummy wants to lure in as many people as possible to snare them. Smith has made a deal to lessen his damages and to try to dig his way out as much as possible and Smith will on the backs of the doofuses who post on Dummy.

There are a lot of trusting dopes out there and SS and Dummy can have their picks.

Be proud and glad you are banned from Dummy. You are now NOT a subject of investigation and were booted because you were warning others. The people still there will wish they were also banned. They are the suckers in the Smith plea deal.

[tvseeker]

Well the site was feeble at best anyways . No big Loss I pay for my tv. (sub) I just like to read all the goings on and sit and laugh at the people who auctally believe the BS they are trying to Spread. Its obvious that NF will not be back and yet they are still promoting it and trying to sell off old stock on the premis that it will return bigger and better . I say HAHA BULL SHIT !.

[Homesl|ce]

Tvseeker..do i know you by other usernames? That big red machine reference..just curious when I see that..

I totally agree about dummy...

I posted there about 2 weeks ago..or something like that..in that thread where the Moderator said "Anyone who posts those legal docs on this site will be banned without warning.." or some jazz like that.

I read thru it and laughed a little, and got to the end, knowing i was about to get myself banned from there..but the very last post that day was from alex70olds....

And he tore them a new one. Ask why it was they wanted to hide what was in the public eye for everyone to see, and if it was meant to be sealed the courts would NOT have released it and had it posted for Pacer account -holders.

I mean..he set them ..as strait as they can be set.but they are still morons.

I posted right under him saying I totally agreed..and there was no sense in trying to make a public civil suit into a secret on that site when it's the only think people are talking about on the 50 other sites..


I figured I would be banned as well, but I guess I haven't pissed in the right bowl of cheerios.

I hate to see anything remotely close to a quote from that site..it's the most hilarious crock of shit to read anything they say about NF and it's future..you're right..you can tell they are blowing smoke up someone's ass..but it aint MINE...lmao.

I enjoy my TV that never goes down, doesn't depend on IKS crap, and wont get me into a large civil suit, possible criminal suit..

Hooray for my DTV sub...lmao.

[tvseeker]

Its Entirley possible. Although its been a few years since ive been on here. i auctally had to reactivate my account. Used to be Big in the DTV scene untill the anton pillor order LOL. Hence the Paid Sub on my end. Too bad its canadian crap.

[Burn]

dummies' sounds like a good thread topic for the "banned unjustly" forum
cant withhold or censor the truth here.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

:DI got Booted from "dummy" site for saying That their NF story was BS and to come here and read the truth. LOL


What is the name of that site ? maybe I'll go and see if I can join the ban list. :D




GS2

[diasharp]

newftatv dot com maybe????


D#

[Pam]

Dummy, i.e. f2atv, was named in the Gee Declaration. Before you could use the f2atv link to get to Dummy but as soon as the Declaration was made public, Dummy went down for a few days claiming it didn't pay a bill. It went down to get rid of the links and rename them. "f2atv to newf2atv", that'll fool them.

Obviously the site has been compromised and Smith has probably turned it over to the plaintiffs so they can gather information. I seriously doubt that Dummy is free from the plaintiffs control and it hasn't been since the Smith suit was filed.

The site is aptly named. Only real Dummies would still post there.

How anyone can read what SS posts and think that SS is not working for the providers has always been beyond me. SS asks members if certain channels are working. The dopes actually answer SS. Don't they think SS would know what channels are working if SS is the "Official Spokesperson for Nfusion?" They answer and SS has proof that the person answering is receiving that channel. Oh well, not much one can do for stupid. There is no cosmetic surgery for being a moron.

For writing this here, I guess Dummy (SS) will double ban me. Better that, than be under the scrutiny of the courts like the other members are.

[tvseeker]

dummychat.com

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

dummychat.com



Ok I was banned there yesterday. Some real children running around there. They delete threads and censor then say they nly closed the thread but were not truthful ( Lied ) since I saved one of the two threads that was deleted.


At one point they added an avatar for me. Looks like romper room stuff. Ducks thinks hes Rambo and does his threat thingy. Broke no rules there and they like to post things they make up with supplying nothing to back up and they like to censor you from responding like they are scared of something so they want controlled threads with what they say only. Sad performance.




GS2

[Pam]

Ok I was banned there yesterday. Some real children running around there. They delete threads and censor then say they nly closed the thread but were not truthful ( Lied ) since I saved one of the two threads that was deleted.


At one point they added an avatar for me. Looks like romper room stuff. Ducks thinks hes Rambo and does his threat thingy. Broke no rules there and they like to post things they make up with supplying nothing to back up and they like to censor you from responding like they are scared of something so they want controlled threads with what they say only. Sad performance.
GS2

They only want the Kool-Aid drinkers. Reno is at the door with tanks and these fools will go down with their leader.

I'm telling you (everyone) it is being run by Gee, aka, SuperStar, and they are getting all they can on anyone and everyone. That site has always given me the heebie jeebies. It tells us something that they are banning people for what they post on other sites. That is desperation. Anyone dumb enough (good name for a site) to post anything on that site and beg for the attention of SS deserves whatever they get. Maybe it will take them out of the gene pool.

I bet Gee laughs his a** off everyday at the SS followers begging for info and he's getting all the info on them.

[teamplayer]

Me & you GS@ ,and they still go on kissin SS azz .I am dying for them to close down so they have to go else where .Then it is my turn .Banned for bein a AZZ !

[Homesl|ce]

Check my post in "banned unjustly"..you'll see the type of shit that they ban people for. I'm banned for posting THAT!!!

A quote from a PROVIDER RUN website...that's a laugh in itself.

Bunch of damn idiots with their heads up their asses and don't know daylight from dark...
But they know when TV is dark, and they beg for it to return, don't they now..

DraacO went about like a damn fool calling me a scammer, a rat, and a DN informant, all because I posted a QUOTE from the new *scams.

If that makes me such, what DOES that make SS?

HAHA is all I can say for such idiots as those..immature motives, immature posts, immature actions...the whole damn works.

They screen and censor like it has been said here..and then they ban those who post FACTS. NOTHING I said was a lie..NOTHING...

But do I have access? NO...


1135

BUT>.....DO I want access....HELL NO. I don't even own an Nfusion..never have, never will. Or any other for that reason that I would use for IKS. Those darn subs..they truly are dependable little things when you pay the bill...

[teamplayer]

Yup I sen that with me also .
Trouble maker
come on facts darc hole ?????
Can't stand that clown